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Post by Kortelan on Feb 12, 2007 19:32:46 GMT -5
Nice ideas Clabbuk, but I think that is going too far for a internet game. That sounds like a normal buy it at the store for $30 game. Although the map idea is really good. I would really like something like that because I have felt kinda awkward a few times when I sent something out and I have no clue if its gotten there or not. Maybe something like couriers move x distance in y time and they travel for z time (in the same units as y time) its been t time since you sent it so it should be here. If that made any sense. That would get rid of 'ok is it still in my province or is it half way across the empire' while still not telling you where it is.
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Post by Nashlan on Feb 12, 2007 19:46:37 GMT -5
Yes, I too think the map idea is a good one.
I think the idea of a virtual office is one idea for the game. Perhaps based on a web page, with different icons to click on. These allow the Ulor different options, for example a scroll to issue decrees, an envelope to send messages and so forth.
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 12, 2007 21:31:28 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the input, guys. We're not ready to start programming stuff, but Clabbuk's idea sounds good. On the other hand, if the conversations with advisors and such are part of a computer program it will be like talking to a computer program instead of a person.
If we did go with that interface, though, maybe the way to do it would be to have the automated advisor respond by saying, "I'll get back to you on that," and then the message is forwarded to a gamemaster who responds. Next time the player logs on, the advisor might say what the gamemaster typed. It would be similar to how it works here, but with graphics.
I'm not sure how much that really adds to the game, though.
Kortelan is addressing a topic that is more immediate concern. We are thinking of posting something that shows the approximate distance per day that Imperial couriers travel by land, by sea and on various rivers going upstream or downstream so that you can calculate travel times. News and rumors travel at about the same speed because the fastest travellers are the ones who spread the word first. Imperial couriers themselves spread news and rumors as they travel.
But all that is worth nothing if you don't have a more reliable way to know what day it is. We have a possible solution, but the problem that we are grappling with is that we planned on having the dates of news stories establish the date for everyone. We've found some problems with that. We get behind on the news and then post several stories at a time, causing the date to advance by a month all at once. Then, when there's no news, it's like time stops. Also, the way the game interaction works, some player is always in the middle of a conversation with his advisor and it is inappropriate for days to go buy in between sentences.
A solution that has worked in offline multiplayer games like this is to allow for the possibility that each player is at a slightly different date or time. The gamemasters will attempt to keep them all approximately the same and since nobody can pick up a telephone and call another player (due to the low technology), differences of a few days are unlikely to be a problem in the game. If one player character goes to visit another, the gamemasters can make sure they are on the same date by the time they meet.
We are thinking of posting the current date with every gamemaster post. This and the information about how fast couriers travel could fix these issues, although players will have to figure out for themselves how long until a certain message is expected to arrive. That's somethat that could be automated, but until it is, there is no way the gamemasters have time to routinely do that. Some messages might be important enough for us to pay that much attention to them, but not most.
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 12, 2007 21:39:55 GMT -5
As for Nemt's comment about images, we are confident that our current use of images falls within the "fair use" exemption from copyright prohibitions on copying. He is right that if we begin to charge for the game, that might change.
Unfortunately, we may have to go to cartoon style images instead of the images we are using now in any version of this game that is offered to the public on a commercial basis.
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Post by Kortelan on Feb 12, 2007 21:45:50 GMT -5
That sounds good for now at least when its still just us testers. I think this game is coming along nicely. Personally I think its very playable just a bit slow. Most of the reason I think its too slow is as is I can get on three times a day and not miss anything that is pressing. I could get on once when I wake up, once after school and once before bed and I don't miss a thing, now granted I am on much more then that. By the time you bring it to the public I think you need enough gamemasters for someone to be on the gamemaster account at all times. That would require lots of communication between the staff but it would allow almost constant replies and would allow a large number of people. The big downside is that would require a lot of people and as such would be very unwieldy.
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 12, 2007 21:48:45 GMT -5
On the subject of maps, there is a lot we can do and are already planning to do. For example, the more advanced province maps have troop deployments marked on them. (We have not published those.) We had a technical problem producing those maps. We solved that problem, but they are more time consuming to produce than the ones we're using. At some point we hope to have maps like that for everyone.
Now that I think about it, it would be easier to use the new map of the whole empire to show deployments of all troops in the known world on the same map. The problem, of course, is that this may be more information than your characters would be likely to have.
In the event of a major war, we expect to produce maps showing troop deployments, fortifications, battles, fleet movements, etc. Not only that, we have some images saved up for just such occasions. That's the sort of graphics we were planning on: pictures and map graphics.
By the way, just as with avatars, if you guys find some images of something you think would be useful, this forum has a feature that allows images to be posted in messages. We haven't used it yet, but we should.
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 14, 2007 6:14:32 GMT -5
Sorry that the game action is moving slowly. We have been working on some game development tasks such as the new large map we recently published and today we have this: nationsandempires1.blogspot.com/2006/11/time-and-distance.htmlIt's a revised version of the article on Time and Distance. It tells how to calculate how long messages and news take to arrive and has precalculated travel times for all the major players who play on the forums. It also has some other details such as the fact that the Winter Solstice is called Oronoran and the Summer Solstice is called Oranbelan as well as when, exactly, they occur. It also gets into some detail on the Imperial Courier service including their Imperial Courier Relay system which is worth reading about. It gets messages across the most developed areas of the Empire faster than you might have thought possible. Check it out.
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Post by Kortelan on Feb 14, 2007 22:01:45 GMT -5
You got the reasons for the two month shift on Earth wrong. Guius Cassius of the house of Julii, clan Caesarious know to history as Julius Caesar created January and a shortened month February moving the beginning of the year from April 1st to January 1st. Until the Middle Ages peasants in the province of Gualia, later northern France, continued celebrating the New Year at April 1st and by 1300 AD people stuck fish on the backs of these peasants calling them "April Fish" which later became "April Fool". I looked this up when I learned by birthday, April 2nd was the second day of the second part of the calender year and that April 1st was the New Years. He created the two months to make the year long enough for him to create a dating system that used the date that Romulus and Remus created Rome as year 1. Which was used along side the year system that used the reign of the Emperors. July is named in honor of the house of Julii the house that both Guius and Octavian Augustus of the house of Julii clan Caesarious, known to history as Augustus Ceasar where a part of. August was named in honor of Octavian. Both July and August were renamed to July and August by Octavian's successor to honor Rome's first emperor (Guius was never emperor). I love the Roman Civil War if you can't tell. The first part, which Shakespeare wrote about in his tragedy Julius Caesar (which was greatly historically inaccurate), was the boring part. The fun part was when the generals fought for the head of Rome which ended with a naval battle in which Octavian killed Marcus Antonius, known as Mark Antony. Back to the New Years it was Guius' New Year was reaffirmed by Pope Urban I (I think, not sure which Pope Urban but I know it was one of them). By the way June was also named for the house of Julii, as well as January. Just for knowledge's sake Monday is the day of the moon, Tuesday is Tyr's day, Wednesday is Wodin's day, Thursday is Thor's day, Friday is Fry's day, Saturday is Sabbath's day, and Sunday is day of the sun. Tyr Wodin Thor and Fry are Norse gods and goddesses. Wodin is more commonly known as Odin. Wow I know so much useless shit.
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 15, 2007 7:05:23 GMT -5
Well, I didn't bother to look it up. I was just going from memory. Maybe you were, too. Now that I have looked it up, what I am finding confirms most of what I said. Perhaps you are confusing the calendar reform of Numa Pompilius with the calendar reform of Julius Ceasar. This link says Numa Pompilius is the one who added the months of January and February some time around 700 BC. It says that January is named after Janus, not Julius Caesar and that June is named after the Goddess Juno, not Julius Caesar. It says that July is named after Julius Caesar and August is named after Augustus Caesar like I said. It also says that October is named after the number eight, not Octavian, also like I said. www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/months.htmlI seem to have gotten the bit wrong about it originally being ten months and two being added in the middle. The above source says it probably always had twelve months, but only had ten NAMED months. Two were apparently unnamed. Julius and Agustus Caesar didn't really add any months, they simply renamed two months. The two month offset is due to the Roman year beginning in March according to the above source. Here's some more sources confirming most of this: www.design.caltech.edu/Misc/month_names.htmlwww.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/origin_months.htmlI don't know if these sources are right or not, but they are the top Google search returns on "names of months".
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 15, 2007 7:17:39 GMT -5
Your explanation of the days of the week differed slightly from what I had previously read. The differences were regarding Tuesday, Friday and Saturday. You said Tuesday was named after the Norse god "Tyr" while I had previously read that it was named after the Norse god "Tiw". This source says they are different names for the same god: www.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/origin_months.htmlPresumably the version of his name that gave rise to the word "Tuesday" was Tiw as in Tiw's Day which would be pronounced the exact same way as the modern word whereas Tyr's Day would be pronounced more like "Tirsday" which, not coincidentally, is what it is called in Denmark. Still, you're right, Tyr, Tiw, Tiwaz and Ziu are all names for the same god. Tyr is the Old Norse name for him. Tiw is the Old English name. On the subject of Friday, you said it was named after Fry which makes sense. I had heard that it was named after the Goddess Frigg, wife of Odin. This source confirms what I remembered: www.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/origin_days.htmlIt says that Friday is named after Frigg, but I'm wondering if she was also called Fry. I looked her up here: www.pantheon.org/articles/f/frigg.html?escAnd I found that there is a goddess named Freya that might be another form of Frigg. You said Saturday was named after the Sabbath. Of course, Saturday is Sabbath day in Judaism and was originally for Christians (and still is for the Seventh Day Adventist Church). The name Sabbath means seven and Saturday is, of course, the seventh day of the week. But despite all that, Saturday is named after the Roman god Saturn, or so I had always heard. Also, this is confirmed by my recent google search. See again here: www.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/origin_days.htmlIt also notes that in Italian Saturday is called "Sabato" and in Spanish "Sabado". Those obviously are derived from Sabbath, but "Saturday" in English is from Saturn's Day. Or rather, "Dies Saturni" in Latin and "Sater Dag" in Anglo-Saxon. Anyway, I've spent enough time on this now.
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 15, 2007 7:41:01 GMT -5
Does anybody know why there are seven days of the week in the first place?
Or more appropriate for this forum, why are there nine days in a Zekresh week?
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Post by Nashlan on Feb 15, 2007 7:58:36 GMT -5
*waves hand in the air*
"Oooh ooh pick me!"
The nine days in a Zekresh week (a Velasik?) are because of the phenomenon of 'travelling stars' of which, one appears every nine days and lasts for nine days before fading to be replaced by a new one. They follow the same course across the sky each time.
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Post by Gamemaster on Feb 15, 2007 8:11:30 GMT -5
Very good. Anybody know or care to guess what the Hell is a traveling star?
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Post by Nashlan on Feb 15, 2007 8:12:21 GMT -5
Ummmm...
Argh, hurry up and invent the telescope dammit!
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Post by Kortelan on Feb 15, 2007 10:24:02 GMT -5
Well, I didn't bother to look it up. I was just going from memory. Maybe you were, too. Now that I have looked it up, what I am finding confirms most of what I said. Perhaps you are confusing the calendar reform of Numa Pompilius with the calendar reform of Julius Ceasar. This link says Numa Pompilius is the one who added the months of January and February some time around 700 BC. It says that January is named after Janus, not Julius Caesar and that June is named after the Goddess Juno, not Julius Caesar. It says that July is named after Julius Caesar and August is named after Augustus Caesar like I said. It also says that October is named after the number eight, not Octavian, also like I said. www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/months.htmlI seem to have gotten the bit wrong about it originally being ten months and two being added in the middle. The above source says it probably always had twelve months, but only had ten NAMED months. Two were apparently unnamed. Julius and Agustus Caesar didn't really add any months, they simply renamed two months. The two month offset is due to the Roman year beginning in March according to the above source. Here's some more sources confirming most of this: www.design.caltech.edu/Misc/month_names.htmlwww.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/origin_months.htmlI don't know if these sources are right or not, but they are the top Google search returns on "names of months". I learned it the way I said it. Also August was named after Octavian. As Octavian's last name was Augustus. June being named after Juno makes sense. Well between the two of us we got it good.
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